In this episode, Carolyn Brown, (she/her) a PhD student in the Department of Chemical and Biological Sciences at Laurier. Her research focuses on making Environmental Impact Assessments as valuable and informative as possible to address developments' environmental, social, and economic impacts. Specifically, she focuses on fish health near the Mactaquac Electric Generation Station (MGS), upstream of Fredericton, New Brunswick on the Wolastoq | Saint John River.
The episode features:
WLU Research Chat S03 Carolyn
Unknown 00:00
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Shawna Reibling 00:04
Welcome to the third season of Research Chat. In this season, graduate students share the challenges of their research work. In this episode, Carla Johnston will interview Carolyn Brown about her work. First, though, I would like to introduce them.
Shawna Reibling 00:22
Carla Johnston, who uses pronouns she/her, is a PhD candidate at the Balsillie School of International Affairs, and is an advocate for sustainable food systems. A specialist in participatory research, Indigenous rights and food governance from the local to the United Nations, Karla has 10 years of experience in community advocacy and policy development in the Northwest Territories, Canada, and around the world. Carla is a SSHRC Joseph Armand Bombardier Canada Graduate Scholarship recipient, and Wilfrid Laurier's 2022 institutional nominee for the SSHRC impact Awards talent competition. Carla is affiliated with the Laurier Centre for Sustainable Food Systems and the Civil Society and Indigenous Peoples Mechanism for the UN Committee on World Food Security. She holds a Master's in Political Economy from Carleton University and a Bachelor of Arts in International Development from Trent University. Welcome Carla.
Shawna Reibling 01:19
Carolyn Brown, who uses pronouns she/her, is an environmental scientist, who is pursuing a PhD in Biological and Chemical Sciences at Wilfrid Laurier University. A specialist in human impacts on aquatic environments, Carolyn has over 10 years of experience in the environmental sector, evaluating environmental risks, industrial discharges and environmental regulation across Canada. Carolyn is the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council, Canadian graduate scholar doctoral award recipient. She holds a Bachelors of Science in Environmental Toxicology from the University of Guelph, and a Masters of Science in biology, ecology and environmental biology from the University of Waterloo. Welcome, Carolyn.
Shawna Reibling 02:04
Thank you to you both for chatting today about how your research projects aim to create better evidence based policies and systems that affect the health of our ecosystem and our lives. This episode will explore Carolyn's research, which will inform policy to ensure appropriate indicators of ecosystem health are captured in environmental impact assessments. I will now turn the microphone over to you, Carla, to learn more about Carolyn's research.
Unknown 02:36
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Carla Johnston 02:38
Hi, Carolyn, thanks for chatting me about your research today. I'm really excited to be chatting with you because it seems like we're kind of from different worlds, but I think we actually have quite a bit in common. So to start off, can you tell me about the research group that you are a part of and how your work fits into the research program?
Carolyn Brown 02:57
So this is a bit of a longer answer. So my research is part of a larger project that looks at multiple aspects of the Wolastoq or the St. John River in New Brunswick, and one of the large hydroelectric dams on the river. The Mactaquac generating station, so Mactaquac generating station was built in 1968 and is operated by New Brunswick Power, it's about 19 kilometers upstream of Fredericton. And it's reaching the end of its operational life about 40 years ahead of schedule because of the concrete swelling problem. So, this problem is causing the concrete to swell and eventually the turbines will stop spinning. So New Brunswick Power has gone through an intensive and public review on what to do about this issue and, in 2016, decided to go with a dam renewal.
Carolyn Brown 03:40
So this means that they will replace the concrete in sections over time so that they can continue to operate and generate hydroelectricity. But this renewal process will require a provincial and, potentially a federal environmental impact assessment. So New Brunswick Power partnered with the Canadian Rivers Institute, which is at the University of New Brunswick to help with science based decisions and management related to the Mactaquac generating station. So the Canadian Rivers Institute then started the Mactaquac Aquatic Ecosystem Study, which is a multi year multidisciplinary study, and it's to provide information to New Brunswick Power in relation to the river.
Carolyn Brown 04:14
So phase one was from 2014 to 2019 and it focused on modeling the structure and function of the river. And now we're into phase two, which focuses on providing science to the environmental impact assessment, fish passage solutions and ecological flow guidance. So there's plans for more phases during construction and also post construction. And so this Mactaquac Aquatic Ecosystem study has a lot of people working on it. There are over a dozen PhD research scientists working on it, as well as a number of graduate students and full time technicians that have also been hired. And so this program is funded by an NSERC collaborative research development grant with New Brunswick Power which is very helpful. So the federal government is matching the money that New Brunswick Power provides.
Carolyn Brown 05:05
And so my research is part of the phase two of the Mactaquac Aquatic Ecosystem study to assist with providing some of the science for the environmental impact assessment.
Carla Johnston 05:15
Okay, Carolyn, for those that don't know, can you describe what environmental impact assessment is?
Carolyn Brown 05:22
So environmental impact assessment is this process to provide information to a decision maker, just usually the government, about potential positive and negative impacts of a project. And so all potential impacts need to be considered; sources, including environmental, human house social, economic, and Indigenous rights. So for different jurisdictions, meaning different federal and provincial or state governments, they do use different names for this process, but I just use environmental impact assessment to capture them all. And so this process can also be on just a single project but it can also look at a larger area, like a watershed to consider the impacts from all the projects in that area. And it can also be used to analyze policies impact as well.
Carolyn Brown 06:07
But for my research, I focused on the science aspects at the project level. And so for the science aspects at the project level, there's three main steps. So first is understanding what the current conditions are before the project's built. So getting that baseline data, and then predicting what the impacts of the project will be, depending on what you understand the current conditions to be and also the description of the project. And then after the project is approved and built, then you monitor to determine what the impacts of the project are and then, if they are unacceptable, then you need to implement further management to reduce or eliminate them.
Carolyn Brown 06:46
So an example of this process is a Ring of Fire in northern Ontario. So this is an area over 500 kilometers northeast of Thunder Bay, and has large mineral deposits like chromite, and nickel and it's an area that doesn't have all seasons, roads, or transmission lines there. And so there really isn't that much human access there but there are multiple First Nations who do live in the surrounding area. So there's a lot of different potential impacts from this with building road access, that's positive and negative, not just the impact of the mining itself, but you're allowing then access for other people to maybe fish and hunt in areas where there wouldn't necessarily be a lot of people there before. So there's a lot of things to consider and to weigh. And one of the main issues, though, is looking at the First Nations rights in relation to this. So right now, in the federal regulations, it does state that First Nations do need to be consulted, and they need informed consent, but they would like to have a bigger part of the decision making. So there is some legal issues that are right now being considered about how they can be part of that.
Carla Johnston 07:55
Okay, what do you plan to explore in your research?
Carolyn Brown 07:59
So there are a lot of issues in environmental impact assessment, but I'm focusing on the follow up post construction monitoring, because it's not as effective as it could be and this is largely because of insufficient information that is gathered before construction.
Carolyn Brown 08:14
So if the state of the environment before the project is built is not known, then it's impossible to know what the impacts are after the project is built. And in particular, the measurement of fish health is often completed and required post-construction, but it's often not measured pre-construction. And then also because it's not measured, impacts are not predicted.
Carla Johnston 08:35
Carolyn, through your example of the Ring of Fire in northern Ontario, I see a connection between our two different research projects, particularly around including Indigenous voices within policy creation processes. Do you think you could speak a little bit more to how your research project contributes to having Indigenous voices within the consultation process for environmental impact assessments?
Carolyn Brown 09:00
So in terms of my research, I guess there's a lot of aspects that I'm not looking at. But in terms of including looking at that baseline information, traditional knowledge is definitely something that should be considered. And in the recently updated federal law, it also states that it has to be included as well. So that's one way that we can include more Indigenous voices at that baseline at that pre construction phase.
Carolyn Brown 09:23
Although I'm focusing on the science aspect, it also needs to consider the cultural aspects. So some of the environmental impact assessments I've read have also talked about the spiritual significance of Lake Sturgeon to a particular Indigenous group. So that also needs to be included as well.
Carla Johnston 09:39
And Carolyn, how do you plan to explore your research question?
Carolyn Brown 09:42
So I have a few steps. At first, I worked on a philosophical paper with a number of co-authors from the Canadian Rivers Institute. And this is where we were discussing the alignment issues of the three main science spaces of environmental impact assessment and then sort of twisted the perspective, from assessing things from a human perspective to from officious perspective. So discusses based on from a fish's perspective what a fish needs and so then what you can assess and predict in each of the three main phases so that you're providing that alignment and also doing things that are effective and meaningful into actually assessing the environment. Currently, I'm working on another paper which I looked at six recent hydroelectric dam environmental impact assessments from across Canada, and then commenting on their aquatic assessments for those three main phases of pre-construction prediction and monitoring plans to provide a perspective on if, in Canada, we're incorporating more science aspects of environmental impact assessments that have been recommended for decades now, because we want to make sure that the aquatic environment is protected. So just providing some updated information on whether or not that's happening or not. I also have two case studies where I'm working in the St. John River in New Brunswick. So this is really to help explore how to collect that baseline preconstruction biological information and how to use that in the later phases. So first, I've collected a number of adult fish, smallmouth bass in yellow perch, upstream and downstream of the dam to help better understand that the pre construction fish health conditions. So the health endpoints are looking at our lengths weight, age, liver and gonad size, and then compare them between sites, but also over time to understand what is considered normal before the construction starts. And then this will allow us to use those, that what that normal condition is now, to compare to after construction, so we can tell if it's different or not. I also have collected young a year, so these are fish that are less than one year old, smallmouth bass upstream and downstream of the dam monthly from July to November. And this is to build a growth model to help with making a prediction. So using the length of weight, as well as some environmental information like water level and water temperature, we'll be able to then compare what's currently happening to what we predict will happen based on after the dam is reconstructed, there might be slight changes in flow and temperature as they try to improve the condition downstream with using ecological flows. So then we should be able to predict if there will be changes in the fish after construction. And so this will also fit into that post construction monitoring. So you'll be able to compare is what we expected happened and if not why. And so then this will end with a framework where I'm taking that information from my case studies to demonstrate how to build an effective post construction monitoring program.
Carla Johnston 12:42
You were describing how you take samples from July through to November. So I'm guessing that that means that the fish size is going to get bigger during that time. What happens if that doesn't happen? Or if there's irregularities in the size of fish?
Carolyn Brown 12:58
Yes, so the fish do grow over time during the warmer months of the year. And so we're able to see what the rate is currently given water temperature and water level and then be able to compare that to post dam renewal and see if the rate is same or different. And then if it's different than be to look into why.
Carla Johnston 13:19
I would also like to ask a question about the paper that you wrote at the start of the PhD. I'm excited to hear about this paper where you flip the perspective from what humans need to what fish need, could you describe maybe what those changes look like, and how that changes the process of your research.
Carolyn Brown 13:38
So in environmental impact assessment, a lot of times when the aquatic assessment part, they focus on water quality and quantity, and maybe do a fish community survey, but there's a lot of other aspects of what a fish needs that are then not assessed, or they're only commented on in a qualitative sense, and they're not quantitatively measuring them. So the paper really discusses all the different things that a fish needs to survive and thrive. And then how you would assess each of those things that they need through the phases. So you can include considering connectivity between wintering habitat, nursery habitat, spawning habitat, those type of things, also, looking further at dissolved oxygen or sediment types, those types of things. Of course, it really depends on the specific project, what it might be influencing. So you don't need to assess every aspect if the project isn't going to change certain aspects of the aquatic environment. So I was really trying to encourage adding more of those biological aspects to the assessment.
Carla Johnston 14:40
Great. What challenges have you faced through your research?
Carolyn Brown 14:44
So one of the challenges is related to being a graduate student remote and working remotely. Although I did go into this knowing that this would happen, because my supervisor is now at the University of Calgary and the people I'm working on my project with are in the Brunswick, so I'm often working at my house without being near those lab mates. And so coming from environmental consulting, where I could easily just quickly ask a question and the person in the office next to me, I don't have those quick discussions anymore about aspects of my project. Another challenge has been with fieldwork. So there's always different things about fieldwork that can be challenging but in particular, for me, I've had instance where I've been fishing a site and walking back to where a boat was only to see it downstream, drifting away. So I had to quickly run downstream and then swim out to get the boat so that we weren't stranded for the day on the side of the river. I also deploy level loggers in the water and we also attach one to a tree or shrub on shore, because we need to subtract the air pressure from the water pressure when we're doing our calculations. And this year, someone from my team went to go retrieve the logger, and it was missing because the whole tree was gone because a beaver had taken the tree for their lodge. But luckily, this had just happened recently, and the beaver lodge was nearby, they were able to find the lodge and see the logger on top and so they didn't have to go digging too far. So we're able to retrieve it. Another challenge I've had is the one year, I was not able to find young of the year or, those fish that are less than one year old, in a specific sampling area. And because of our collaboration with other groups, I was able to ask the local First Nations for help. And so while I was able to continue doing my adult fish survey, they went out to try and find these young of the year which are in different habitat than what the adults were. And we had this time crunch because there was a hurricane coming to the east coast so we wanted to get the field work done before that arrived so it's great that they were able to help me with that.
Carla Johnston 16:52
I can relate to some of those challenges with seeing your boat float away. I was out with the chief in Sambaa K'e and we were checking up this island and we didn't tie up the boat. And we're all like checking out this like little seagull egg and then we turned it back and the boat was floating. And so the chief had to jump in the water and go swim after the boat. So yes, I share with your boat floating away experiences. So moving on, what are the next steps in your work?
Carolyn Brown 17:21
So at this point, I've collected the data that I have, and I have a plan on what I'm going to do with it. So I just need to really finish modeling and writing.
Carla Johnston 17:31
Can you place your research in the broader context of successful environmental impact assessments?
Carolyn Brown 17:37
So environmental impact assessment does have a number of issues. And so I was exploring the issue of aligning the science phases, because it's really important after construction is done to be able to answer if you're having an impact. And so that's not always happening effectively. So my research is demonstrating how to collect that pre construction biological information that can be used to make those quantitative predictions of impact. And then also, so you have something to compare to during your post construction monitoring. So it's important for developers to think early in the environmental impact assessment process, what they need to measure now that will be needed post construction, to understand if they have an impact.
Carla Johnston 18:19
Is there anything about your research that you feel is important to share?
Carolyn Brown 18:23
So I think it's important to be adaptable when things don't go as initially planned in the field, whether that's from equipment issues, or personnel availability, or COVID policies. And the same goes for when you're working in the lab and with data. You need to do what you can when you can to get the work done. Also, having strong partnerships can also help with your adaptability. So you can call on for help from other groups and researchers to help get your work done. And then hopefully you can also reciprocate with them in the future as well.
Carla Johnston 18:53
What should people remember about environmental impact assessments?
Carolyn Brown 18:58
So environmental impact assessments need accurate indicators of ecosystem health like fish health, project developers need to think about what information they will need after the project is built to determine if there is an impact and then measure it before the project starts.
Carla Johnston 19:12
One of the things that I see is kind of a connection between your research and my research is we're looking at how people make decisions and how people find better ways to make those decisions. And so I'm wondering if you could describe for me how environmental impact assessments help to create better evidence based decision making.
Carolyn Brown 19:33
So here's the environmental impact assessment process. The main purpose is to provide that evidence to the decision maker. And so I guess we're - my research is commenting on how they're not actually gathering enough evidence to help with that decision. In addition, the post-construction monitoring is supposed to help understand is there an impact and if there is an impact, then they should be making decisions on management to reduce that impact. But if you don't have that adequate information And then it's hard to make those decisions.
Carla Johnston 20:02
Thank you so much for sharing your research with me today, Carolyn, it's really interesting to see the different parts of the processes that go into making decisions and how we can make sure that we're having a more sustainable world. So thank you very much again for chatting to me and telling me about your research.
Carolyn Brown 20:19
Well, thanks for speaking with me. It's great to speak with you as well.
Shawna Reibling 20:22
Thank you to you both for chatting about your research, it's important to provide evidence to help create better systems in all the processes that affect our lives and the lives of fish
Unknown 20:33
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Shawna Reibling 20:41
I hope you enjoyed listening to today's discussion on Research Chat. If you'd like to learn more about the topic of environmental impact assessments or global food policy, or use this podcast in the classroom, there are resources, additional readings and details about the work of each researcher on our website at wlu.ca/research-chat. Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform to be notified of new episodes. Research Chat is a partnership between the Office of Research Services, the Faculty of Graduate and Postdoctoral Studies and the Laurier Library. Thank you to everyone who's contributed to the creation of Research Chat. A gratitude list can be found on our webpage.
Unknown 21:33
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